Institute of Metals Division - Discussion: Permeability and Diffusion of Hydrogen

A. S. lBrling (Johnson, Matthey & Co. Ltd., Laboratories)— Because of its initial emphasis upon the production of membranes by powder metallurgy and by normal casting and rolling techniques, this paper is of considerable interest to those concerned with the design and application of industrial diffusion units. As the subsequent performances of the three grades of palladium were not compared in detail, it can perhaps be concluded that specific permeabilities were very similar. A short table in which the absolute diffusion rates obtained by the Authors with their three grades of palladium were compared with those of other investigators18-25 would, however, have been of particular value in view of the very variable results obtained with this membrane material. The Authors state early in the paper that the permeability of the thoriated samples decreased in much the same way as that of the nonthoriated samples. Later, they emphasize that sintered palladium without thoria was very susceptible to poisoning and did not respond as well as the other materials to the decontamination treatment. These results, which suggest that sintered membranes are less effective than those produced by normal methods, have considerable industrial implications, and amplified experimental details would be very welcome. The results of the Authors differ in one important respect from those of other investigators. Thus, no "bleeding" was required to maintain a constant rate of diffusion, although Davis, Darling, and De Rosset found this to be necessary. Davisz3 found that "bleeding" was necessary even when the hydrogen had already been purified by diffusion through a palladium tube, and it would be of value to know the purity of the gas stream emerging from the purification train shown on Fig. 1 of the Authors' paper. The Authors show that diffusion rates varied according to the square root of the pressure difference providing that the palladium membrane was not contaminated in any way. This finding is in agreement with the results of those workers2,18,19,23,24 who diffused their hydrogen through the membrane into a partly or completely evacuated system.Those workers who did not find this square-root law dependence did not have a partial vacuum on the downstream-side of the membrane.'' The difference between the two experimental con- ditions appears to be significant, as the absolute diffusion rates per sq cm of diffusion area are lower when the square-root law dependence is not observed. While the effect could be attributable to poisoning of the membrane it is conceivable that a positive pressure on the downstream side of the membrane might influence the mechanism of diffusion. In view of the capricious behavior of palladium, factors of this type, which are likely to influence its industrial significance, should be carefully considered. M. van Swaay and C. E. Birchenall (authors' 9-eply) — Our Eq. 191 may be compared with several others for hydrogen diffusion in palladium: D = 5.95 x exp (-5770/1)' D = 3.55 x 10"3 exp (-5550/)' D = 4.3 x 10"3 exp (-5620/1')' Other values are given in the literature, but in many cases surface poisoning may have affected the results. No analysis was performed on the hydrogen gas stream after purification. It should be noted that the presence of liquid nitrogen traps near the heated membranes may have set up convection currents and provided the equivalent of "bleeding." The question of whether a partial vacuum existed on the downstream side of the membrane is not clear. Does it imply that there is something unique about the permeability measured near one atmosphere pressure? We do not believe that there is. When square root pressure dependence is not observed, diffusion rates are not measured. Is "absolute diffusion rate per sq. cm. of diffusion area" equivalent to permeability? The terminology is new to us. In any case we doubt very much that pressures of the order of several atmospheres can affect the mechanism of diffusion.